One week after "Survivor" crowned a two-million dollar winner in its landmark 40th season, our expert, two-man panel is here to break everything down. Join the Brothers Christensen as they navigate through 20 hard-hitting questions about "Survivor: Winners at War."
THE SEASON
1. What was your overall opinion of the season and the outcome?
Austin: I thought that it was an overall good season with an ending that you could have predicted at the merge. That said, it helped rekindle my love for "Survivor."
Aaron: Overall, very strong season. Best cast ever, undoubtedly. Unlike many seasons of "Survivor," the right person won, and I don't think there is any question about that.
2. What did you like about "Winners at War"?
Austin: It had an AMAZING cast! The best ever, IMO. I'm not a huge Tony fan, but I also enjoyed sitting back and enjoying greatness.
Aaron: Great, great cast. It was fun to see a lot of really good players coming back, and the fact that they were all winners made it so there was good gameplay from the very first episode. In a lot of seasons, it takes a few episodes to warm up to the cast, and for the players to figure out how to play the game, but Season 40 came out of the gate swinging. The first half of the season was full of terrific episodes.
3. What did you NOT like about "Winners at War"?
Aaron: I still don't love Edge of Extinction, although it was implemented in a way this season where it felt like players on the Edge still influenced the game. I'm also not sure that I love bringing a person back from the Edge right before the finale. It just feels cheap in some ways, and it's an almost-guaranteed asterisk if somebody coming back into the game that late goes on to win. I feel like they should have introduced Fire Tokens in a regular season, not in an all-star season, so the audience and the players both had a better idea of how they needed to be implemented. I don't think that TV viewers truly understood everything that was going on with them, and it ended up being a largely unnecessary layer on top of what should have been a pretty straight-forward season. Too many players were willing to quit the game this season, which was really surprising to me. Sandra actually did quit, Denise mentally quit, and Ben literally told Sarah to vote him out. It's two million dollars, people! What gives??
Austin: The editing was lacking. There were so many twists and turns this season that at times it was difficult for the viewers to keep up with what was happening.
Aaron: After reading Austin's response, I agree about the editing. My wife was constantly asking why Ben and Jeremy hated each other, and I could never explain it because I am not sure that we actually saw it.
4. Where does "Winners at War" rank in the pantheon of "Survivor" seasons?
Aaron: Top Five, probably. There have been so many seasons that they all kind of blur together, and so many of them have either been really good or really bad. I can definitively say, though, that "Winners at War" was not THE BEST season of all time. The second half of the season was too predictable and the fact that nobody, other than Kim, whose plan was a miserable failure, was willing to take a shot at Tony kind of rubbed me the wrong way. But in terms of domination by a single player, this was an all-time performance by Tony. He worked the entire cast, and they were all seasoned enough to have known better and tried harder to prevent it. The high point of the season was the night where we saw Parvati and Sandra voted out in back-to-back Tribals. That was one of the best nights of "Survivor" that I can ever remember.
Austin: I’d say Top 10, for sure. Prior to the merge, it was looking like it would be the best season ever, but prior to the finale I actually predicted EXACTLY how the finale would go. The last half of the season was too predictable for it to be the best.
THE PLAYERS
5. Who, if anyone, exceeded your expectations?
Austin: Tony, obviously, and also Michele. I didn’t expect Tony to play the best game ever, but I certainly didn’t expect Michele to make it all the way to the finale and have a fairly compelling case to receive votes.
Aaron: Tony - an all-time great performance. Truly masterful. Michele - everybody said, going in, that she was an undeserving winner and a major underdog in the game. Look who's laughing now. Natalie - she has overcome her "Twinnie" persona that I hated so much from "The Amazing Race" and the first part of her winning season, and, even though she spent the entire time on Extinction, she was head and shoulders above everybody else that got voted out.
6. Who, if anyone, failed to meet your expectations?
Aaron: Adam - I really liked him in his original season, and even thought he did pretty well for the first episode or two, but after that... Man... I don't even know. Ben - I don't know what my expectations were for Ben, but he just bugged the heck out of me the entire time. The guy can't keep a secret to save his life, and then the way he exited the game was truly pathetic. Denise - I love Denise, I don't really understand her transformation late in the game, and her downward spiral from voting out Sandra to verbally giving up is a bit mind-boggling.
Austin: Ben and Kim. I think Ben was way out of his league in this season and, frankly, I don’t think he belonged. Kim, on the other hand, was so dominant in her first season that I was expecting more from her. The fact that she was voted out because she made one of the most basic mistakes a survivor can make only adds to the disappointment.
7. Who were you rooting for at the beginning of the season? Who were you rooting for at the end of the season?
Aaron: At the beginning, Tyson, Denise, Adam and Wendell. At the end, well... I mean, I understood that Tony deserved to win, but everybody I had a vested interest in had been booted by then. Michele by default, I guess?
Austin: At first I was rooting for Tyson and Denise, who are two of my favorite castaways ever. Heading into the finale, I was rooting for Michelle. I thought she played a great underdog game and I think she’s one of the most underrated Survivors of all time.
8. Have we finally seen the last of Boston Rob and Sandra?
Aaron and Austin: Yes.
9. What did you think about Natalie having so many advantages from her time on Edge of Extinction?
Aaron: For someone who was voted out at the first Tribal Council, Natalie had WAY too many advantages. I don't disagree that she earned them and she deserved some credit for working so hard, but for her to have three advantages and two idols, compared to Nick, who was the last person sent to Extinction and had NOTHING, that was totally unfair.
Austin: Two things come to mind. First, I think the system is broken. Nick lasted 34 days and had 0 chances to gain an advantage heading into the final challenge. Why should someone who was voted out on Day Two have the opportunity to monopolize advantages like she did? Second, props to her! She cleaned up on Extinction and went out of her way to earn everything that she could.
10. What did you think about Ben giving Sarah permission to vote him out?
Austin: Ben was a weak player this season. I think his logic in Sarah using that move as a resume builder was flawed. Mostly, on this season I really wanted to see all the heavyweights go at it and fight to the finish. I would definitely have rather had someone else in the final five who was willing to fight to the end and try to win.
Aaron: Weak. Pathetic. Completely ridiculous. And for him to insinuate, "What you need in order to win is a big move, so I give you permission to vote me out," totally cheapened the move Sarah made in the first place. How could she possibly claim that and say, "My one big move was that I voted Ben out after he told me to do it"?
11. What did you think about Sarah's "gender bias" speech in the finale? Did it change your opinion of her?
Aaron: First of all, she should have saved that speech for the final Tribal. Second of all, I understand that some viewers believe that the producers have it out for women (especially "women of color," as I read in one particular article), but I don't buy it. I don't think her speech changed my opinion of Sarah, specifically, but I didn't think she made enough significant moves to win the game either way.
Austin: The timing of it was interesting. It felt like she was pandering a bit early to the jury, and why not? You don’t have to save it all to the final Tribal Council. I’m not sure I agreed with everything she said, but I thought she eloquently stated her side of things. My opinion of Sarah remains the same.
12. Did Natalie make the right decisions after re-entering the game?
Austin: I didn’t want her to use her idol on herself; I wanted her to save Michele, but it didn’t matter. After the merge, especially, the individuality of your game increases. I think it was the smart thing to do (BUT SHE SHOULDN’T HAVE TOLD SARAH THAT SHE HAD IT!!). From the fire side of things, had Natalie challenged Tony to fire and won, I think she might have unanimously won the game.
Aaron: I mean, what the jury probably wanted was for her to play her idol for Michelle, then voluntarily give up her individual immunity to make fire against Tony (a move that has already been done, mind you, and led to the crowning of the most controversial winner of all time). Her moves guaranteed her a spot in the finale, and I can't blame her for that. She came in and wiped out Tony's alliance, and that was awesome. The only way she would have won would have been by eliminating Tony, though, and that didn't end up happening.
13. What did you think about the final Tribal Council?
Aaron: Overall, it was fine. I don't love the "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast" format that they adopted a couple seasons back, but it is what it is. The jury wasn't bitter, which is always nice, and it seemed like everyone respected everyone else, and that's good.
Austin: I thought it was good, but certainly different that what we have seen in the past. The jury was laughing with the final three, admiring some moves they made, and it didn’t feel nearly as bitter as other final Tribal Councils that we have seen.
Aaron: I actually thought that each of the final three made solid cases for why they deserved to win. I thought that they each represented the three main aspects of the game, too - Tony was easily the best strategic player, Natalie dominated Extinction from a physical standpoint, and Michele had to play a flawless social game to survive on the bottom for as long as she did.
14. Tony won, 9-4-0. Did Michele deserve any votes?
Austin: I think she deserved at least one. With Michele’s resume from this season, I think you could transplant her to many other "Survivor" seasons and she would have easily won. The problem is that she ran into Tony, who played the greatest individual season of "Survivor" ever.
Aaron: Yes, at least one. Many people online were giving Wendell a hard time for not voting for her, but I don't think you can force a guy to vote for somebody just because they dated. That shouldn't have anything to do with it. But yes, I do think that it was a shame Michele didn't get more votes.
15. Is Tony the greatest "Survivor" player of all time?
Aaron and Austin: Yes.
GENERAL QUESTIONS
16. Should "Survivor" continue to use Fire Tokens?
Aaron: I don't mind if they come back, but they need to iron out a couple things first. As viewers, I don't think we really understood everything that could be done with the tokens. It seemed like, as far as we knew, they were really only used for advantages/disadvantages to be sold to players still in the game or for jars of peanut butter.
Austin: They should. I think there is a lot of intrigue with Fire Tokens, but they weren’t implemented correctly this season. We saw lots of different situations where the tokens caused changes in gameplay, most of which were entertaining, but I think they need to look at how people on the Edge of Extinction can earn/use them. This season’s system was so slanted in favor of the first person to be voted off that it didn’t feel right.
17. Should "Survivor" continue to utilize Edge of Extinction?
Austin: I think that having a second chance eliminates some of the beauty of the game. I think that with hidden immunity idols, among other things, that there are enough ways to prevent being voted off that having a second chance at coming back in the game feels too merciful.
Aaron: No. Get rid of it. Once you're out, you're out.
18. If you could play with anyone from this season, who would it be?
Aaron: Denise seems like she would be a pretty loyal ally, and I think, if you can get on his good side, Tyson would be a blast to play with. He and Gervase remain one of the top duos in the history of the show.
Austin: Tony is entertaining, for sure, but I think I’d go crazy if I played with him. I think I’d want to play with Tyson because I think he’s hilarious, an awesome player and an overall good dude.
19. Is there anyone from this season that you would not want to play with?
Aaron: Tony. The guy drives me nuts. Sandra and Rob, too. I'd want them gone immediately.
Austin: Boston Rob. He’s so bossy that I’d probably lose my temper within the first 24 hours on the island with him.
20. What makes "Survivor" such a great show?
Austin: This might be the hardest question because I think there is a combination of about 1,000 things. I think that the show finds normal people, brings them entirely out of their element, and it shows what people are capable of doing in a game where there are real life consequences and a significant financial reward.
Aaron: The fact that it has been able to successfully reinvent itself so many times over the years is a testament to its greatness. I love the drama of it all. There have been some epic blindsides over the years, and it never gets old watching somebody think they're on top, only to come crashing down half an hour later. And finally, we've got to give some props to the best to ever do it - Jeff Probst, the greatest game show host ever!
What did you think about "Survivor: Winners at War"? We'd love to hear your thoughts in the comments section below, on Twitter or on Facebook.
There was an idea called the Virtual Roundtable. The idea was to bring together a group of remarkable guest bloggers, to see if they could become something more. To write the blog that we never could...
"Avengers: Infinity War" is arguably the biggest, most-anticipated blockbuster movie in the last decade; Marvel fans have literally waited 10 years for it. It premiered at the end of April and we here at The Underground kindly, generously, benevolently waited nearly two weeks before posting anything about it, as to allow our lovely readers time to get out and see it for themselves. Now that some time has passed and we've all had time to process the far-reaching ramifications caused by the Mad Titan, himself, let's break it all down with a star-studded panel of new and returning bloggers. Before we get down to business, let's meet the aforementioned panel:
Aaron Christensen: Main (and, for all intents and purposes, sole) contributor to SotT: Underground. The only person you know that still likes playing Rock Band. Recently referred to as a "pro online dater."
Mickael Stevens: First-time Virtual Roundtable contributor. Poster of funny videos and memes. The artist formerly known as Steve-O.
Austin Christensen: Believe it or not, a first-time Virtual Roundtable contributor. Currently serving the United States Air Force in Taiwan. Lover of sports.
Jonathan Blackham: Yet another first-time Virtual Roundtable contributor. The last remaining Junior Mountie. Probably the nicest person you will ever meet.
Brad Randall: Second-time contributor. Game Night champion. Allegedly works for the most successful real estate company in the world. It's in a magazine - look it up.
Karrie Randall: Also returning for her second Virtual Roundtable. "Stranger Things" mega-fan. Super-mom.
Now that we have familiarized ourselves with the gladiators in this Coliseum of Pop Culture, let's do this thing! But first, be ye warned...
The remainder of this blog will contain MAJOR SPOILERS for "Avengers: Infinity War." If you have not yet seen the movie, and if you have any interest whatsoever in seeing it eventually, please do not continue reading until you've seen it for yourself.
In the immortal words of Judge Mills Lane, "Let's get it on!"
Question 1: How would you rate this movie?
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐: Aaron, Mickael, Austin, Jonathan
⭐⭐⭐⭐: Suzy, Brad, Karrie
Question 2: What made this movie good or bad?
Suzy: I went in expecting huge, grandiose plot lines and amazing crossovers from all the other movies, which was true in a lot of ways. I loved the character interactions and seeing how far everyone has come. It was everything I was hoping for it to be.
Aaron: I've been experiencing a little Marvel fatigue lately - too many movies, too many characters - makes it hard to keep up. But this was everything I hoped it would be. I didn't feel like any characters really got shafted for screen time and I loved seeing them all come together with a united, mutual goal. What's more, I truly believe that the movie ended on the greatest cinematic cliffhanger of all time.
Mickael: Characters were well-balanced for screen time. Story was engaging. Humor did not overwhelm the serious moments.
Austin: The ability to include all the characters without making it seem like they were bouncing around. The fact that the heroes actually lost and the villain stayed true to form.
Jonathan: It was the culmination of 10 years of movies (and TV shows). Up to this point, Marvel has only been adding tons of powered individuals into their movies and, miraculously, they have always been up to the task to save the world. No casualties among their ranks (except Quicksilver). Their time ran out, and we are all attached to the characters now. We're emotionally invested in this, our super heroes. They cannot fail. And yet they do. Where do you go from here? Perfect message for life. We all fail. Where do we go after we fail?
Brad: I felt that, given the high number of characters, they did a good job balancing all of them. I felt that Thanos was fleshed out more deeply than I anticipated, which was a strength to the movie. At times, I felt the story and plot were a bit scattered and that this suffered from the fact that it is the first part of a two-part series. There is a bit of an anticlimactic finish in these types of movies ("Harry Potter and Deathly Hallows: Part One," "Hunger Games: Mockingjay - Part One"). Overall, I really enjoyed it.
Karrie: I was very impressed by how well they managed such a large amount of very important characters! My only negative critique is there are so many jumbled back-stories that they are still trying to include. It’s hard to keep it all straight!
Question 3: Now that we've been fully introduced to Thanos, what do you think of him?
Jonathan: Thanos is the best antagonist that the MCU could have pitted the Avengers against. His reasoning for his actions is something you could understand, but the way he solves the problem is what we have problems with. Thanos isn't doing this for himself; he doesn't want to rule the universe (although that's a byproduct of his actions) -- instead, he wants to keep it going so it can continue to sustain life.
Karrie: Honestly, I feel for Thanos, I believe that he truly believes that what he is doing is right and is helping to save the universe! I disagree with some of his choices, but he is led by his belief! I don’t think he has [truly] evil desires!
Suzy: I like that he's a real character. He doesn't do bad things because he's a bad person. He has an agenda and what's really surprising about him is that he's not entirely wrong. I don't want him to succeed, but he thinks he's trying to help people which is the sign of a well thought out villain, in my opinion.
Brad: I think he is the strongest character in the film and they wanted him to be. Even though he is fierce and aggressive, there is much more humanity to him than I thought.
Mickael: Great villian. He had a interesting motivation. He was powerful and threatening. You also felt for him at times.
Austin: Thanos is hardcore. He’s a nasty dude, but he was true to character throughout the movie.
Aaron: I thought he really needed to hit the ground running in order to make him as big and bad as he had been hyped up to be. They gave him the ol' Kylo Ren treatment ("Go ahead and kill some beloved characters!"), and I'll be honest: when they trolled us with "Thanos will return," I just about gave that movie screen the full-armed flip-off. Screw you, Thanos!
Question 4: Was there anything about the movie or your movie-going experience that you wish would have been done differently?
Brad: I recognize that when you have a movie taking place in lots of galaxies there will be a lot of CGI, but I really appreciate the real-life settings, practical effects and work that is done [without special effects]. I felt there was a whole lot of CGI - and it was mostly used well - but could have used a few more traditional on-location shots.
Jonathan: Thanos' skin color, but I'm not as hung up on it as some outraged fans are. I would have also loved to have seen the fights for the other infinity stones, but the movie was long enough as it was.
Suzy: The story line was pretty basic. I was not surprised at all by any of the character's actions. It was exciting and I left the theater wondering where it would go next. I think the next movie will be absolutely amazing because we only saw the first half of the story, and they followed their formula to a T. Now we will see what they've got up their sleeves when the second half comes out next year.
Aaron: The only bad thing about my movie-going experience (other than the inevitable handful of obnoxious fans that I had to put up with each of the times I saw the movie) was that I bought Friday night tickets a month ago, with no way of knowing that Game 6 of the Jazz's first-round playoff series would be at the exact same time. But hey, I kept my phone off for 6 hours, came home and watched the Jazz eliminate the Thunder, so we're all good, baby! Go Jazz!!
Karrie: I had a headache during the movie.... but that’s about it! I enjoyed the film much more than I expected!
Austin: I wish I would have first seen it in America.
Question 5: Which moment was the biggest surprise?
Austin: When Thanos snapped his fingers. We knew he had the ability, but it was like, “Oh crap, that really happened.”
Jonathan: I think the final break down of the fateful casualty list was the biggest surprise. I wasn't surprised by its occurrence (even not knowing the comic story line). I just didn't know what the sides would be.
Brad: Loki!!! That was quick and I realized how much I like Loki about the same time I realized he was going to die. 😦
Karrie: Loki’s death. I love Loki!
Suzy: Loki's actual death. Gamora's actual death. Captain Marvel's logo at the end.
Question 6: What was the funniest scene or line of the movie?
Jonathan: Mr. Stark and the wizards' banter.
Suzy: "We have a Hulk." - Loki (You know he's waited 6 years to say that.) The whole interaction between Thor and Star-Lord. The fact that "Groot" is an elective on Asgard.
Austin: Star-Lord copying Thor.
Mickael: Drax admiring Thor's body.
Aaron: Drax: "How long have you been standing there?" "An hour."
Karrie: When Drax thinks he has figured out how to be invisible!
Brad: Drax spoiling Gomora and Quill's emotional moment was brilliant.
Question 7: Were you surprised at how much you liked or disliked any of the heroes?
Aaron: I think my favorite character in this movie was Doctor Strange. I forgot how much I liked him.
Brad: I really struggle with Vision. I don’t feel a connection to him, so I wasn’t sad to see him go.
Jonathan: I'm still not sold on Winter Soldier. He's Cap's weakness. I mean, he's a gun in a pinch, but his character has kind of flat-lined for me.
Karrie: I have never loved Vision or Scarlet Witch, but by the end I was very invested in them both!
Suzy: I was surprised at how much I liked it without being very surprised by it all. When stories seem as predictable as this one, I usually feel cheated, but I think it was everything I wanted it to be and now I just have to look forward to the next one.
Question 8: The award for Most Improved Character goes to ____________.
Suzy: I think I'm going to go with Vision on this one. He was so stuck on right and wrong in "Civil War," it was really cool to see him in this movie wanting a life with Wanda and evolving to the point that he knew the only way to protect everyone was to die. I loved the way he talked to Wanda about it, understanding all that she's lost and what this would mean for her in the long run. I loved it.
Austin: Iron Man. He’s obviously one of the most important characters, but he left a bad taste in my mouth from "Civil War."
Aaron: Gamora. In my Avengers Power Rankings blog, Gamora was rated as one of the least important characters. In "Infinity War," she played one of the most important roles in the entire story.
Mickael: Gamora
Jonathan: T'Challa
Brad: Doctor Strange
Karrie: Doctor Strange. I hated his movie but thoroughly enjoyed his character this time.
Question 9: All deaths aside, which two characters would you use for your dream spin-off/team-up movie?
Austin: Iron Man and Black Panther would be awesome to see the gadgets they come up with. Thor and Doctor Strange would be cool because they could protect the universe. Cap/Falcon and Iron Patriot will be protecting the country. Lots of spin-offs. The one I would most like to see is probably Thor and Doctor Strange.
Jonathan: Shuri and Stark would be absolutely hilarious. Who can out-tech the other?
Aaron: I am all over another Doctor Strange and Iron Man team-up!
Karrie: Hulk and Loki.
Suzy: I would love to see Tony and Dr. Strange in a longer team up. They're so unalike, I love it.
Mickael: Spider-man and Captain America.
Brad: Thor and the "rabbit" and Groot were great.
Question 10: Which death was the most shocking?
Aaron: That entire final sequence was just horrific, but Spider-man's death surprised me the most.
Suzy: Loki's death was really sad, because it was actually real and he died protecting Thor. Also Vision's death - both of them - were heartbreaking.
Austin: Doctor Strange. He kinda played a huge role in this movie and then died. Sad stuff.
Jonathan: Gamora. I mean, I knew she was going to die, but not in that intimate way. Not as a sacrifice at great cost to Thanos.
Brad: Gamora
Karrie: Gamora
Mickael: Gamora
Question 11: How on earth are they going to undo what Thanos did?
Suzy: That's what I want to know!! I literally have no solution for this! Especially with half the universe completely gone now!
Aaron: I have no idea. But what if the Avengers use that spare gauntlet that Thor found and somehow create their own Infinity Gauntlet? Thanos is so overpowered at this point (largely due to his possession of the reality and time stones) that I don't see any other way for him to be defeated.
Mickael: Something to do with time.
Karrie: The time stone!!!!!
Austin: Get the time stone back and bring people back. Maybe. Who knows?
Brad: Captain Marvel. [Maybe] there is a seventh stone that will wield power in the future.
Jonathan: How many scenarios do you want? Agents of SHIELD have plenty of doorways into that mess already stacking up. ["Agents of SHIELD"] Season 5 has been all about this. This whole season has been about how to change the inevitable ending you know is coming. Time travel, bootstrap paradox, time loops, etc. It's also a good thing that Fury was contacting Captain Marvel, whose upcoming movie in 2019 will feature a younger version of Phil Coulson.
Question 12: Who will kill Thanos in Avengers 4?
Other: Suzy, Austin, Jonathan, Brad
No One: Mickael, Karrie
Thor: Aaron
Question 13: What is your biggest unanswered question?
Austin: Thanos claimed he was going to rest, which we saw with the last scene from the film. He’s already killed half of the universe. How are they going to bring him back?
Jonathan: Why didn't they destroy the time stone instead of the mind stone?
Suzy: How does Tony get back to Earth? Will Pepper still be there to forgive him? How can Spider-man be gone?! Will the Fantastic 4 (the real ones) show up to save the day?
Karrie: Why did Thanos see a young Gamora after the “snapture”?
Brad: Is Gamora trapped in the soul stone?
Aaron: What other kinds of Avengers Ben & Jerry's flavors are there??
Bonus: Give us a #HotTake!
Mickael: Red Skull will get the Infinity Gauntlet.
Jonathan: The fallen heroes will rise again, but we will lose some (some for a second time, and some new deaths), and there's no way around it.
Karrie: Doctor Strange saw the outcome of his actions when he gave Thanos the time stone. I think he did that either because he had to save Iron Man so he could fix it all or this was the one way that they would win!
Aaron: The mind stone may be gone, but the "best parts" of Vision are still alive. He will be resurrected in the next movie.
Suzy: After Tony and Cap are killed by Thanos, Captain Marvel is going to show up with Hawkeye, Ant-Man and Wasp, and they're going to find a magic stone that trumps the infinity stones and stop Thanos.
Austin: Iron Man and Pepper Potts won’t get married.
Brad: Captain America will save Iron Man but die in the process. Iron Man will have a kid and name him Steven.
Bonus: Pick any topic and speak your mind!
Suzy: If everyone is actually dead and they don't find a way to bring them back, what does this mean for the MCU? I know it's shifting because Cap, Tony, and Thor are most likely done, but Spiderman is out, Dr. Strange is also out, most of them are gone. And there's no way to really recover from that.
Aaron: Marvel has got to stop announcing sequels two years ahead of time. They announced post-Avengers 4 sequels for Guardians of the Galaxy, Spider-man and Black Panther months ago, so either this is all an elaborate hoax or we are very clearly going to have a mass resurrection on our hands, come May 2019.
Jonathan: I can't wait for the movies to have guest stars from the TV shows. It's going to be SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK. I'd love to see AoS' Graviton, Yo-Yo and/or Ghost Rider fight Thanos - just for kicks, though. I honestly don't know who would win. Even with a fully loaded Infinity Gauntlet.
Brad: I love that, in order to reach Captain America, Iron Man uses a flip phone.
Austin: Really happy with how the Utah Jazz played in the playoffs. The grit we saw from a rookie, a dude who got cut and the 27th pick in the draft is awesome. I love this team.
The Final Word: Is this the best superhero movie of all time?
Yes: Aaron, Mickael, Austin, Jonathan
No: Suzy, Brad, Karrie
***
Well, there you have it! Did you agree? Disagree? Were we spot on or way off-base? Let us know in the comments section below! And if you're in the mood for more Virtual Roundtables, check out our spoiler-laden breakdowns of "Captain America: Civil War" and "Stranger Things: Season 2." As for us, well... we don't feel so good. . . . . .
Unless you live in China and don’t have access to Google or the desire to follow the NBA, you’ve likely seen at least one post about Gordon Hayward leaving Utah in free agency to take his talents to South Beach or reunite with his old college coach in Boston. I, however, am not convinced that either of those are good ideas for Gordon. It’s not often that the Utah Jazz turn out to be the best location for big-time free agents, but here are a few reasons why Utah is the perfect destination for G-Time:
1. We drafted him
It’s well-documented that the Jazz could have picked Paul George instead of Gordon Hayward in the 2010 NBA draft. The Jazz believed that Gordon would be the better option, contrary to popular opinion at the time, and I believe that that decision has paid off for both parties. Paul George, in my ever so humble opinion as a lowly blogger, is overrated. Hayward, on the other hand, might be one of the most underrated stars of his generation. He was an all-star, sure, but I don’t believe he gets all the credit that he deserves from people outside of Jazz Nation. We believed in Gordon when other people didn’t. I think that that should mean something to him.
2. Loyalty counts
Growing up in Indiana, Gordon was an Indiana Pacers fan and he cheered for Reggie Miller. Miller, whom I’m not crazy about, always had something in him that I admired: loyalty. He could have left and gone to a bigger market and made more money on endorsement deals. He could have joined up with his archenemies in New York or Chicago and formed a super-team. But Reggie gave that up to be loyal to the team that drafted him and the state that adopted him. Gordon is in a situation where proving his loyalty to us in the coming days would cement him as an all-time Utah Jazz great. Number 20 would hang from the rafters of the Delta Solutions Smart Home Arena forever, and his legacy would be cemented in the hearts of Jazz fans around the country.
3. We care about him more
Not only does Utah have a more passionate fan base than Boston or Miami, but we actually care about him. In Boston, the Celtics are the second, sometimes third fiddle to the Red Sox and Bruins. I’m not sure if the city of Miami actually realizes that the night club that they attend also happens to double as a basketball arena, either. They don’t care as much as we do. In Utah, the Jazz are The Big Ticket (all due respect, Aaron) and they always will be. Not only are the Jazz the hottest show in town, but Gordon is the ringmaster. He’s the one we are going to see every night. If he goes to Boston, he’ll be appreciated, sure, but that will never be his team or his town. Miami might be one of the worst sports cities in America because they don’t care. They show up late to NBA Finals games and leave early. They gotta hit up the club, right? Gordon Hayward means something to us. He’s connected with the fan base in a way that nobody has since St. John (Stockton) himself. He’s a family man from a small NBA market who is quiet off the floor and efficient on it. There isn’t another team in the NBA that will care about or love Gordon Hayward more than the Utah Jazz.
4. We can offer more money
With the current NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement, it allows for the team that the player was previously on to offer more money in free agency than other teams. This is a big advantage for smaller-market teams who are trying to keep their players. If he were to sign a "max contract" with the Jazz, he would have more security, as he’d be able to sign a six-year deal worth $236 million, whereas, with another team, he could only sign a four-year deal worth $132 million. This contract is likely the one with which he will make the most money in in his whole career, because at the end of the contract he will be 32 or 33 years old and will be towards the end of his prime, and thus worth less money. If it’s finances that Gordon is worried about, he has no reason to go elsewhere.
5. He doesn’t really have a better chance at winning in Miami or Boston
Boston added Al Horford in the offseason and people thought that that move might push them over the edge and into the NBA Finals. They even got the first seed in the Eastern Conference. Then they ran into the LeBron James buzzsaw and got smacked by the Cavs in the Eastern Conference Finals. Here’s the thing: LeBron isn’t leaving Cleveland and LeBron is going to be in the finals wherever he is at. That’s the way it is and that’s the way it has been for the last seven years. Boston would have to beat Cleveland in the playoffs in order for them to get a ring. Not happening. If he goes to Miami, it would be even more difficult for him to make it far in the playoffs, as he would have to compete with both Boston and Cleveland and he would have less help on the Heat. The Jazz likely won’t be winning a ring anytime soon, either, but they have a brighter long-term future, with a younger roster than either Miami or Boston. Gordon probably won’t win a ring in any of the three likely destinations, but, as previously mentioned, he would make more money and be more appreciated in Utah.
6. Utah management caters to Gordon
They have ever since he got drafted here. They have plastered his face on billboards and on the front of the arena. He’s been in commercials and been the face of the organization pretty much since he arrived. Let's not forget that they declared June 24th "#HayDay." This offseason has further proved that the Jazz are trying to make moves to win right now, and we want him at the helm - not as a plan B. The Jazz moved up in the draft to get a lottery pick and traded for Ricky Rubio. The Jazz’s window is right now, and management is doing what they can to make the team as competitive as possible and to make Gordon Hayward as good as possible.
7. WE FREAKING LOVE HIM
(WARNING: SERIOUS MAN CRUSHING IN THE NEXT PARAGRAPH)
I know I already touched on this, but I’m reiterating it because I think it’s that important: I’ve got a serious, serious man crush on Gordon Hayward. I love the guy. When I think about the Jazz over the last seven years, almost all of my good memories come back to him, somehow. I had the opportunity to work behind-the-scenes and see the players and coaches when the cameras weren’t on, and he is a class act. Everything that he did was awesome. In my life, I can’t think of another player that I have loved to watch and felt a connection to as much as G-Time. Jazz Nation has fallen in love with the chase-down blocks, slam dunks, good shooting, his humility and hard work. Gordon, if you’re out there, you’re the man. Please don’t leave. You’re a staple to the Utah community as a whole, not just our sports. We don’t only want you, we need you. Nobody else wants you or loves you more than we do. Please #Stayward.
We here at The Underground kept our mouths shut for FIVE MONTHS following Star Wars: Episode VII - The Force Awakens. We didn't say a word, out of respect and courtesy for those who hadn't seen the movie and didn't want it spoiled for them. In retrospect, that was ridiculous. If a good movie comes out, we want to talk about it!
With that being said, an enormous blockbuster movie came out over a two weeks ago: Captain America: Civil War. Perhaps you've heard of it. Aaron has rounded up a crew of guest bloggers and they've got a whole lot to talk about.
IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR YET, THIS IS YOUR CHANCE TO GET OUT UNSCATHED. MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE FILM WILL BE DISCUSSED BEYOND THIS POINT.
All right, if you've scrolled down this far, we assume you've seen the movie and want to discuss it. At this point, we'll welcome in our panel of bloggers for the very first "Virtual Roundtable," which will work as, basically, a podcast for your eyes. The Underground has compiled a list of questions and our bloggers will share their thoughts, feelings and predictions.
Before submitting their answers to the questions that will follow hereafter, with the possible exception of Amy and Cole, who are married and live together, none of the bloggers for this "Virtual Roundtable" discussed their answers with each other. This will make way for two possibilities: the conversation, admittedly, may seem a bit disjointed, but it also may provide some common threads among responses. [Editor's note: At minimum, you will notice that it will be quite obvious which characters were most and least popular among these five bloggers. Kind of interesting.]
But before we get to that, let's quickly introduce our bloggers:
Aaron Christensen - Main contributor for SotT: Underground, former journalist of Deseret News and Salt Lake Comic Con fame, the former college radio DJ forevermore known as "A-Town."
Cody Christensen - First-time contributor to The Underground. That's all he could think of.
Cole Morgan - First-time contributor. Newlywed. X-box user. A real-life hero. Also, one of the biggest Tony Stark lovers ever to walk the earth. Amy Morgan - First-time contributor. Newlywed (see above). The one and only Christensen sister. Brought up in love by overprotective brothers.
Curtis Anderson - First-time contributor. Californian, which supposedly makes him a Golden State Warriors fan. But, overall and sports allegiance notwithstanding, a giant, lovable teddy bear.
All right, now. Let's get to it!
TOPIC 1 - EXPECTATIONS:
QUESTION: What expectations did you have for the movie? What were you expecting to happen?
Aaron: I had incredibly high expectations for Civil War. Not the same as Star Wars because Star Wars is Star Wars, but I couldn't wait for this movie to hit theaters. I honestly had no idea what was going to happen because, unlike Batman v Superman, where we all knew WAY beforehand that they'd fight for a second and then end up on the same team, I only thought there was about a 95% chance of Cap an Iron Man kissing and making up, so to speak, at the end of i.
Cody: I had fairly high expectations going into the movie because of the high bar that Marvel has set with its previous movies. I was worried about spoilers - seeing things like the commercials for Suicide Squad - I feel like that movie has kind of been ruined because they've shown so much about it already. I was worried that there was going to be a lot of publicity for Civil War, but I wanted to go in, not knowing very much about it.
Cole: I had some previous knowledge of the Civil War, not from the comicbooks, but rather from the video game "Ultimate Alliance 2." I was expecting to see Iron Man on the side of superheroes registering, and Captain America against the proposal. Although I am an Iron Man fan, I went into this movie with the belief of Captain America being in the right.
Amy: At first, I expected this movie to be really good. I haven't met a Captain America storyline that I haven't liked yet. I was a little nervous after watching Batman v Superman if I would like having two "good guys" pinned up against each other. It ended up being a good storyline, though, and it exceeded all of my expectations.
Curtis: As far as expectations are concerned, I tried to keep mine very realistic. Keeping in mind that I did think a major character was going to be killed off, I wanted to be very surprised, yet also didn’t want to be let down, so keeping mine at mid-range was appropriate. I did expect Thor to show up towards the end and warn them of the coming danger due to the Infinity Stones and the Ragnorak, thus kind of shifting the Avengers' focus from their debate to the real problem.
QUESTION: For starters, were your expectations met? Yes or no.
Aaron: Absolutely, yes.
Cody: I feel like nothing got ruined for me beforehand, so yeah, I would say that they were met.
Cole: Yes, they were.
Amy: Yes.
Curtis: Overall, I would the say the expectations were met as a whole.
TOPIC 2 - #TEAMCAP, #TEAMSTARK AND REAL-WORLD CONNECTIONS:
QUESTION: Going into the movie, had you already determined whose team you were going to be on?
Cody: I think that I went into it pretty open-minded, as to a team, but as the movie developed, it solidified who I liked more. Amy: #TeamCap
Aaron: Last summer, I read about a third of the extended "Civil War" storyline in the comics, so, if the movie was going to end up anything like the comics, I knew I'd be #TeamCap.
Cole: I went into this movie as a staunch and proud Iron Man supporter.
Curtis: Going into it, I was on Team Iron Man.
QUESTION: While watching the movie, did your opinion of which team was in the right change at any point?
Cody: I think it solidified my choice more than it changed it.
Amy: Sort of. I could see why each party felt like they were right and my opinion was swayed a few times during the movie. I didn't agree with having the government controlling the Avengers, necessarily, but I ended up agreeing that the group needed to be in check.
Aaron: It's tricky. No, I'd say my opinion didn't change. I was in Cap's corner the entire time, but I can see valid arguments for each side.
Cole: My opinion did change. I expected to side with the morals of Captain America, but I was drawn towards the side of Iron Man. One of the many reasons that I love Iron Man is his ability to change. Tony Stark is known as the arrogant, egotistical and prideful billionaire, but that’s all a cover. The whole basis of Iron Man is Tony taking responsibility for what he had done in the past. He learns from his mistakes. This is what led him to shut down the weapons development at Stark Industries and to pursue villains.
Curtis: I did feel the struggle of trying to choose a side to be on, although my position on Iron Man’s side was solidified throughout the movie. That being said, I do see right and wrong opinions from both sides.
QUESTION: Were you sympathetic to the other team, even for a moment?
Cody: I felt sympathetic toward Iron Man toward the end when we found out about his parents, but I wasn't sympathetic toward the cause; I was more sympathetic toward the person.
Amy: Yes, I was. I felt like Tony Stark's point of view was valid. I feel like it was a real wake-up call for him when that woman confronted him about her son's death after his presentation to the college students. He found out that fighting with the Avengers was doing more harm than he thought. It was something I hadn't considered before. People were getting hurt or killed in the process of the Avengers saving those cities.
Aaron: Yeah, I think so. I thought the film did a great job of showing the frustration and desperation of the ever-confident Tony Stark. (His "Come on, man" plea stood out to me.) He seemed like a pretty frustrated dude and yeah, it made me feel kind of bad for him. It was almost like Batman v Superman, in the sense that I can understand why both Tony Stark and Bruce Wayne would have been really upset about their circumstances. Understanding someone else's perspective makes it hard to be like, "Kick his trash! Get him!"
Cole: I ended up siding with Iron Man, but not the government. I think that Tony doesn’t want to become a government employee - there would have been many debates on what restrictions could be placed, and I’m hoping that the council that would have had oversight over the Avengers would have been made up of politicians and superheroes. For this reason I also had sympathy towards Cap and his crew. Cap saw the worst in this bill, and he also had more knowledge of the context behind the bombing at the UN (information that nobody else had), so I think that both sides acted in what was right, based upon the information they each had.
Curtis: I would say I was more sympathetic to the characters, rather than the team as a whole.
QUESTION: Obviously, it's fictional, but what do you think "Civil War" teaches us about the role of government in today's society?
Cody: When we found out about the Sokovia Accords, it showed how corrupt the government can be, because, like Captain America was saying, once the government takes sides, it shows the government's true agenda. It goes to show how people react when they are given ultimate power, as opposed to checks and balances.
Aaron: If we learned anything from the Hillary's America trailer that preceded the actual movie last night, we learned that government can be a scary thing. I understood why Secretary Ross and the United Nations wanted to pass the Sokovia Accords, but it seemed to me that, despite all the good I'm sure they had intended, there were going to be a lot of dangerous consequences if the Avengers got their hands tied. (The audience's reaction to the end of the "Hillary's America" trailer was HILARIOUS, by the way. We only laugh to keep from crying because we all know it's coming. Heaven help us.)
Cole: Oversight is good, but not if it restricts us from doing what is right. If oversight is necessary, then the overseers must be extremely qualified.
Curtis: That it can be too involved and not set on a moral basis, per se. I would have signed, but only because I agree with Tony that we have to accept limitations or we aren’t any better than the bad guys. I do agree with Cap that agendas do change, but it is our moral responsibility to disobey an unjust law. However, it has to be a law first in order to tell its true nature.
QUESTION: There was some talk about standing for your beliefs, despite what others or "the world" might pressure you to do or say. Did you see any religious parallels in the movie?
Cody: Similar to the War in Heaven, there was a decision that needed to be made - there were two options: either everything was going to be decided for you and if you didn't do it, you were going to be punished, or the other option was that you were given the opportunity to choose for yourself and deal with the consequences accordingly. I think that both sides have their merit in this movie, however, one is more understandable to follow than the other.
Amy: Now that you bring this up, yes. With the world's values changing, the right decision is usually the unpopular one. Despite what our friends may think or do, we need to be willing to make a stand for our beliefs.
Aaron: Yeah, I'm always looking for hidden religious messages in the stuff I watch, so I did find it interesting to listen to the "sometimes I want to punch you in your perfect teeth" conversation between Steve and Tony. Cap argues that the Sokovia Accords take away the Avengers' right to choose and act for themselves. Sounds like Satan's plan to me! Also, I thought Agent 13's speech at the funeral was good. I liked the part about standing tall when the world tells you that what you're doing is wrong, even though you know it's right. "No, you move." Nice.
Cole: Captain America is always right. It’s in his nature, and his ideals on the place of personal accountability are very similar to LDS beliefs on agency. We all have a choice, we should do our part and have faith in people that they will do the same.
Curtis: Absolutely. Can you truly believe in God without recognizing and following certain lines of conduct or order, in a sense? Maybe it comes from living in Europe and having immigrant parents and also being raised in a faith, but you can't sit on the fence between the world and God. Sides have to be chosen in almost everything we do and say.
TOPIC 3 - CHARACTERS:
QUESTION: Aside from Captain America and/or Iron Man, who was your favorite character in the movie? Why?
Curtis: Black Panther, hands down, without a doubt. He was so focused on his mission, but never so focused he couldn’t listen to reason, and could therefore end up making the right choice. He was very thought-provoking due to his nature and the dialogue that character had. And he isn’t white… finally!
Cole: I loved Ant-man. His humor made the movie so much more enjoyable and he’s so excited to be doing what he thinks is right. I was also stoked to see the emergence Giant-Man.
Cody: Ant-man. I think he is very underrated. When he had screen time, he didn't disappoint.
Aaron: Ant-man was great. That guy is hilarious. It's funny... the first time I saw Ant-man, I thought it was all right. (I went in with really low expectations.) I watched it again on Blu-ray and liked it much more than the first time around. And, as time goes on, the more and more I like him. I love that he's just a regular, star-struck dude with a sense of humor and some awesome super powers. Flying on Hawkeye's arrow? Are you kidding me??
Amy: Ant-man! He is so real and people can relate to that! I think it's hilarious how star-struck he is when he meets Captain America mainly because I know I would do the same thing. I also appreciate his humor. Ant-man continues to impress me.
QUESTION: Which character was the most surprising to you?
Curtis: Truth be told, Cap was the most surprising for me. Before the movie, I slightly understood what was going on, as far as the dilemma, but didn’t fully grasp the entire thing. I really thought Cap would be the last one to say that we don’t need limits. I do see where he is coming from, that agendas do change and so do the people with those agendas, but, then again, Cap himself has changed. He really cannot live without a war or some kind of fight. Not accepting limits is the eventual rise of a warrior who doesn’t have to answer for what was done, whether it be good or bad.
Cole: Spider-man blew me away. I’m excited to see a him portrayed as a young kid.
Cody: I'd say Scarlet Witch because she was more confident in herself. In the second Avengers movie, she was very unsure of her powers, but in this one, she's more confident, more understanding of her role, and now, in this movie, she just needs to learn about the consequences of her powers. It gave us a greater opportunity to see the person that she can develop into.
Aaron: I actually really liked Bucky. The Winter Soldier was always kind of a baller, but I really liked seeing Bucky fight with the good guys. I don't think I was expecting that.
Amy: Spider-man - He was so much younger than previous Spider-man actors and I liked that a lot. He looks like he actually belongs in high school. He was a little awkward and nerdy and I also thought it was funny how he was looking for Tony Stark's approval for everything he did in the fight. "What do you want me to do, Mr. Stark?"
QUESTION: Which character were you most disappointed by?
Curtis: I think this one goes to Cap, as well. I think, just as the question before, not accepting limits proves the reality of true self. I wanted them to sign as a group, but, honestly, even I would go help someone, even if I was told I couldn't enter that situation. Papers are pure formality and I think they saw the bill as an ultimate decision. I was just a little surprised to not see Cap be the one to sign.
Cole: I was not all that impressed with Black Panther. I thought he was cool and he’ll be a great fighter. I just don’t really care much for the way he was introduced into the universe. He just seems angry. However, he did seem to change by the end of the movie. I’m hoping for greater things.
Cody: I would say either Black Panther or Vision. I think both of them are cool. You don't really see them very much in this movie, however, Vision got little-to-no screen time and Black Panther... I think he has a cool back-story, but the entire time, he was on a manhunt and he kind of got the wool pulled over his eyes. You can see how vengeance really took control of his character. Vengeance destroyed his credibility with me.
Aaron: Black Panther. Sure, he's a pretty good fighter, but I just wasn't super impressed by him. I think most of my problem stems from the fact that he was wrong for like 90% of the movie. He kind of redeemed himself a bit there toward the end, once he realized that Zemo had duped him, but yeah... He didn't blow me away. It's just hard when they introduce a character that I'm supposed to like on a team that I'm not cheering for.
Amy: Black Panther. I didn't like how he was consumed by revenge for so much of the movie when he's supposed to be a superhero. That's a characteristic for a villain, in my opinion.
QUESTION: Who gets the "Most Improved Avenger" award?
Curtis: I’m going to say Spider-man, due to the fact that the previous movies have been letdowns and the character fulfillment has never really hit is peak. I always felt that Spider-man (due to writing and cast) was always more of a lower/mid-level hero. This new rebooted Spidey has really set the bar high. I’m excited to see how they go with him in the future.
Cole: I give this award to the Scarlet Witch. She seems to have put a lot of her irrational emotions aside and is turning out to be a valuable fighter.
Cody: I'd say Falcon or Bucky. You see Bucky re-develop his memory in this movie and you see how someone who had so much evil potential turn it into good. I think with Falcon, he developed more as a character - not just as Captain America's sidekick like he was in Captain America 2, where he was just a "yes-man," but here he developed into a hero.
Aaron: Tough question. The first to come to mind would be Falcon. He stepped it up big time since Cap 2. I like the drones and you can tell that he's more of a leader and less of a sidekick now, so that's good. Scarlet Witch also had some cool moments and there were a few times with Vision where I thought, "Now that's just not fair!"
Amy: Surprisingly, Black Widow. I don't like her because she always has one cool fight in the movie and then she stands by for the rest of the movie. This time she had a few more fight scenes so I felt like she was less pointless. Congratulations, Black Widow... *slow clap*
QUESTION: Which character did you think deserved more screen time?
Cole: I wish that we could have seen more of Hawkeye. I was so excited when he showed up and he’s turning into one of my favorites. I also think he could have weighed in more to the conflict seeing as he is the only “family man.” His opinion would have been quite valuable as I think it relates more to the "normal" people.
Cody: Vision.
Aaron: Hawkeye.
Amy: It's a toss up between Hawkeye and Ant-man. I've always liked Hawkeye because his super power is being super good at archery - not because he was exposed to gamma rays or injected with some cool serum. He seemed to be passionate about the cause in this movie. And then for Ant-man, I really just like his humor.
QUESTION: Did watching the movie decrease your opinion of any of the Avengers?
Curtis: A little, yes, but not to the point where I would not see them in some sort of positive light.
Cole: The movie actually made Vision seem a little less powerful to me. He has this mindstone which apparently can destroy the world if used properly, and yet he didn’t even seem to be able to fight with much power.
Cody: It did for War Machine and Iron Man. War Machine has always been a sidekick and now I feel like he'll never be anything more than that. And like Black Panther, now Iron Man is driven by vengeance at this point.
Aaron: War Machine annoyed me so bad. He's like a yappy little chihuahua - obviously not the big dog (that would be Iron Man), but still running his mouth like a tough guy. Not a good 146 minutes for Rhodey.
Amy: As I've talked to Cole, I've realized I'm a little disappointed in both Captain America and Iron Man. Captain America, because he knew a pretty big secret that Bucky killed Iron Man's parents. Of course he decides to tell Iron Man at the worst possible time. I would feel disappointed and mad at one of my good friends if they were keeping something like that away from me. I wish that Iron Man would have realized that Bucky was not in control of himself at that time though. In my opinion, the last fight scene between Cap, Bucky, and Iron Man was epic and almost too real for me. I had to close my eyes when Cap took off Iron Man's helmet because it looked like he was going to kill him. I was glad that the letter Captain America sent at the end of the movie helped to resolve things, though.
QUESTION: Did it improve your opinion of any of them?
Curtis: Not so much increase my opinion as it did increase my empathy for them from both sides.
Cole: I’ve never been a fan of Black Widow, but she seems to be growing on me after this movie. Don’t get me wrong, she’s still my least favorite, by far, but she is getting more trustworthy and likable. It may be her relationships with the newer characters and also her ability to fight.
Cody: Scarlet Witch - you see her grown into her own. She becomes a hero.
Aaron: Scarlet Witch, probably. She didn't do much in Age of Ultron, but she definitely pulled her weight in "Civil War." Also, you can tell that she really does care about the people they're protecting. She was devastated after blowing up the building in Lagos. Amy: Again, Hawkeye has impressed me. He came out of retirement and away from his family because he wanted to stand up for what he felt like was right. I think Hawkeye might be the most under-appreciated Avenger.
QUESTION: How did you feel about the introduction of the rebooted Spider-man?
Curtis: I loved it... pure joy, for sure. The new Spider-man will be amazing, especially since this actor is visibly much younger than any of the others. My only worry is they will do the same old villains as they have in the past. I'd actually like to see them have Daredevil and the new Spidey join up once in a while - more so as a Daredevil cameo in a Spider-man movie. But, in reality, I would like to see Spider-man have more Avengers-oriented villains than the ones we've seen in his previous films.
Cole: I think that the new Spider-man is going to be really good. He’s an actual high school aged kid, which adds some diversity, and I felt like Tony Stark designing his suit made a lot of sense. He also added a lot of humor which I think helped the movie.
Cody: I'm kind of sick of Spider-man, to be honest. The fact that this is going to be the third version of this character... I'm not thrilled that it took them five movies to get to this point. Like the Fantastic Four, they rebooted it and it sucked both times. I'm sure that once you start seeing "Infinity War," I'll be ok with him, but for now, I'm just sick of him. I'm sick of the Uncle Ben spiel, but dude... Aunt May is hot! I wouldn't mind seeing her in another Spider-man movie. I'd go just for her!
Aaron: I thought Tom Holland did a good job. ... And THANK THE MAKER that we aren't going to have to see him get bit by another spider or witness the death of Uncle Ben for a third time. Tobey Maguire is still THE Spider-man, in my opinion, but I'd almost basically trust Marvel and Disney with my life, so we'll see how things go with the reboot.
Amy: I felt like it was perfect. Tony Stark recruiting him was brilliant! That way, it wasn't Spider-man just randomly showing up to this fight he wasn't really involved with. It was a good way to introduce Spider-man to the Avengers, in my opinion.
QUESTION: At any point, did you think a major character was going to be killed off?
Curtis: I thought during the ending fight that Cap was going to be killed or severely hurt to the point of no resistance, but I was always hoping that Bucky would be killed off.
Cole: I had read in some obscure website months ago that Civil War was going to be the end of Captain America and that Bucky would then step in, but I was glad that it didn’t happen.
Cody: Genuinely, I thought that Bucky was going to die in that final fight. Everyone was out for Bucky and everyone wanted him dead. Iron Man wanted him dead, Zemo wanted him dead and the people just wanted him dead, but I knew for a fact that Iron Man wouldn't die.
Aaron: I thought I saw a spoiler the night before we saw the movie that mentioned characters being killed and the name "Scarlett," so I was pretty sure Black Widow (Scarlett Johansson) or the Scarlet Witch would die. I was so mad when I glimpsed that comment. I wasn't heartbroken over the possibility of Black Widow dying because I don't like her character, but I was livid that a major death had supposedly been spoiled for me. Neither of those characters ended up being killed, so whatever I thought I saw was apparently just some idiot trying to be funny, but I was really relieved. Toward the end of the movie, I thought they might actually kill off Iron Man, which would have been shocking, but that didn't happen, either.
Amy: I thought Cap was going to kill Tony at the end...
QUESTION: If you had to change the story and kill off one of the Avengers, which would it have been?
Curtis: I'd kill Bucky, hands down, mostly because he is the problem child of the whole scenario. There were other options besides freezing him. He needed to answer for what he did, but I don’t think prison was the answer.
Cole: I don’t want him to die, but I feel like if War Machine would have been killed (not by Vision), then that would have enhanced the story. War Machine is cool, but not that necessary. It would have further sparked the conflict and I think that it would have given Tony a better reason to fight.
Cody: War Machine.
Aaron: War Machine.
Amy: I would typically say Black Widow, but she was decent in this movie... So I would say Black Panther; he really didn't do anything of value until the mid-credits scene.
TOPIC 4 - MOMENTS:
QUESTION: What was the funniest moment of the movie?
Cody: I think one of the funniest moments was when Captain America kisses Agent 13 and turns around and Falcon and Bucky are nodding at him. Either that or when Ant-man meets Cap and says, "Thinks for thanking of me."
Amy: This is off the top of my head: 1) When Agent 13 and Captain America kiss and the camera pans to Falcon and Bucky just chilling in the car, looking proud of Cap. 2) Peter Parker saying he can't help fight because he has "... homework." Tony's reaction was priceless! "I'm going to pretend like you didn't say that." #TearsOfJoyEmoji
Curtis: Oh, for sure, the introduction of the new Spider-man, but that scene also has some really pretty perks...
Aaron: Either Ant-man's new power, which was hilarious, or Falcon and Bucky in the car. "Can you move your seat up?" "No."
Cole: Tony Stark listening to Ant-man rant, and then responding, “Who are you?”
QUESTION: In your opinion, which one or two scenes were the most exciting?
Cody: The airport scene. That and the fight scene after Iron Man found out that Bucky killed his parents. That was intense.
Amy: The airport scene. Also, I think that last fight scene was really exciting and almost a classic battle scene. It was cool to see Iron Man take on these two genetically enhanced soldiers but, again, it was a little scary to watch because things got so intense. I think that's what made it so exciting for me.
Curtis: Excitement was the emotion I had the whole length of the movie. The peak for me, though, was that last fight. The accumulation of all the struggle and emotion came down to one moment and it was intense. Also, Aunt May...
Aaron: The airport scene, obviously, and I also liked the sequence where Cap and the Winter Soldier bust out of Bucky's apartment and fight Black Panther for the first time.
Cole: The airport fight because there was so much going on. Also, the moment when Ironman is firing directly at Captain America’s shield. It was a very iconic image. It raised my heart rate and lead me to wonder, “Who will come out on top?”
QUESTION: Which was better: the airport fight in Civil War or the Battle of New York in The Avengers?
Cody: I think they both have merit. I think the Battle of New York kind of established the Marvel universe - that the Infinity War is possible, that there's an alien race out there that's coming for the Avengers. The airport scene shows that the Avengers don't always agree on things and it shows their true colors as individuals. If I had to choose, though, I'd choose the airport scene.
Amy: This is a tricky question... The Battle of New York was fantastic because this was their first big fight together as the Avengers. When the Avengers' theme song comes on combined with all the action, you get chills. It's just so well made. The airport fight was more comical, which I appreciated! It was hard to see all these superheroes fight against each other, until they showed Hawkeye and Black Widow fight and they joked about how they're still friends, as long as they don't hit too hard. Then I realized this wasn't really a personal fight but they were just sticking up for their beliefs.
Curtis: Civil War,I believe, is just better all around, as far as a good fight.
Aaron: I think I've got to go with Civil War. The Battle of New York was so great because it was the first time we had seen that many heroes fighting together, but the airport scene was nuts because they were fighting EACH OTHER! Nobody cared about the Chitari, and Loki isn't some magnificent gladiator, so watching 10 characters that you actually do care about duke it out like that was nothing short of awesome.
Cole: Tough call, but I’d say New York. I miss the Hulk and Thor and I liked seeing the Avengers use their powers to complement each other more than finding weaknesses.
QUESTION: What did you think were a couple of the most shocking plot twists?
Cody: When Zemo brainwashes Bucky, because it causes him to require going back into cryostasis. Also the fact that the Avengers are split up and aren't all on the same team anymore.
Amy: When we find out that Bucky, as the Winter Soldier, brutally murdered Tony Stark's parents. Everything was fine until that point... And then we find out that even Cap knew. That was rough to watch and also it made a ton of sense. That was just straight-up crazy.
Curtis: Other than Bucky being the assassin of the Starks, I think Black Widow turning sides and helping Captain escape. It really does leave Tony with just Vision and Peter Parker on his side, due to Black Panther also changing sides.
Aaron: There was an army of Winter Soldiers!! I understand why Zemo did what he did, but, man, that would have been a heck of a battle to watch. Another one was Black Widow stopping Black Panther to let Cap and Falcon escape. Did not see that coming. Oh yeah - I was also shocked that Agent 13 actually did something in this movie.
Cole: Bucky killing the Starks. I was freaking out in my seat.
QUESTION: Let's talk about the bomb that was the assassination of the Starks... Thoughts?
Cody: I did not see that coming! When they finally talk about the events of December 1991, that's when I became sympathetic to Iron Man. Then, hearing that Captain America didn't say anything about it for his own selfish reasons, I think that would have been extremely difficult for Tony. Amy: :( Too soon... But really, it was sad to watch that scene. Watching Tony go through what he wished would have happened the last time he saw them at the MIT conference was sad enough but then for him to relive it again was rough. I wonder how Cap felt about it, though. He worked with Howard Stark quite a bit in the first movie. Was it just as hard for him to realize his best friend had killed the man who helped Cap become a lot of who he is as a superhero?
Curtis: It was needed to fulfill the story line of the movie. Plus, it finally allows Tony to understand his past (what happened to his mom and dad), therefore allowing him to move on if he chooses to do so. If it were me, I know it would be hard, but I know eventually I'd face the facts, move on and focus on the greater good.
Aaron: Dang, dudes. Like I said earlier, I understand how that would have absolutely crushed Tony Stark's world - and the fact that Cap knew about it and didn't say anything? Oof. Wow.
Cole: It’s tough for me to debate this. I know that the Winter Soldier was not able to control himself, but would any of us react differently to watching our parents getting punched repeatedly in the face? I mean, the man just watched them get BRUTALLY murdered, and then to find out that the man who he thought was his friend hid it from him? I’d be pretty pissed, myself. I think that I would have wanted to punch Bucky, too.
TOPIC 5 - THE FUTURE:
QUESTION: What did you think about the post-credits scenes?
Cole: I thought that the mid-credits scene sets up the Black Panther movie, and the final one was just neat. Neither one was that important, but they were cool to see.
Cody: At the beginning of the movie, I was very indifferent toward Black Panther, but it made me excited because now it ties Bucky into the plot line of Black Panther.
Curtis: I love the direction that the new Spider-man is taking, or at least the direction that the ending scene is implying.
Amy: The first one was interesting - how Bucky decided to put himself under - but it was for a good reason. He didn't want to be a threat anymore. I think it sets up the Black Panther movie nicely. The second one wasn't that spectacular, in my opinion, and I think they could have done away with it.
Aaron: I thought the Black Panther scene was the best one. I can now actually say that I'm excited for his movie because it looks like we know what's going to happen - somebody's coming for Bucky!
QUESTION: So what happens next?
Cole: I think Iron Man should have another movie, and in that movie he should find himself even more humbled and in need of the rogue Avengers. This way they can mend the rift between them. As for Bucky, I don’t know what should become of him. I’m curious. Does he come out to fight? Or should he just be frozen for a good, long while?
Cody: I wish that they would finish the other movies that they have planned. I wish they would finish the "Thor" movies because I feel like that ties directly into the "Infinity War" movies, since that's what Thor is hunting. But right now they're doing all these other movies like "Doctor Strange" and "Black Panther," and they're starting new franchises when they haven't finished the ones that are already started.
Curtis: I marry Aunt May... but, in reality, the next Thor movie will tie in more heroes, and that will be the big reshaping of the Marvel universe. I expect a few people will die and everyone will come back together and maybe join a few new characters to fight the Infinity War. Civil War, as a movie, was a great plot, but I don’t think it reshaped anything in its entirety.
Amy: Well... "Spider-man will return" and I think the Black Panther movie will definitely have to do with the Black Panther protecting the unconscious Winter Soldier.
Aaron: Seems like we haven't had a Thor movie in forever.
PREDICTION: Make a bold prediction about the Marvel Cinematic Universe, moving forward.
Cole: Cap will die, and then Bucky will surface. I know that’s found in the comics, but it happened during Civil War. I think that Cap needs to be murdered to strengthen the avengers moving forward.
Cody: I think that one of the main characters that they've already established is going to die before the end of the second "Infinity War" movie. I don't think that there's any way that all of them come out of that alive.
Curtis: Thanos wins and all the heroes die in the Infinity War... but Aunt May lives.
Amy: I wonder if they will follow the Marvel Comics at some point. In the Civil War comics, Captain America died and Bucky kind of took over the role of Captain America. I would be intrigued to see if that will happen. I mean, I'm sure Bucky will come to consciousness in future movies. It's more of a thought than prediction, but that's all I've got.
Cole: I’ve been mulling this over and working it out in my mind. I was disappointed to see Tony throw the first punch before the final fight scene. I just felt like there wasn’t quite enough there for Iron Man to brutally attack the Captain, BUT I had to put myself in Iron Man’s shoes.
Iron Man’s fury towards Captain America can be backed with a few arguments:
Captain America never felt the need to tell Tony Stark how his parents really died.
Iron Man did not understand that Bucky couldn’t control himself, and Siberia was not the time to break that news to him.
Steve Rogers was good friends with Bucky, but is that old friendship worth more than what he’s been through with Iron Man over the course of the past four years?
It’s not just that he was lied to, but Captain America won’t look out for Tony in the slightest. He appears to only be loyal to an old friend. I’d feel pretty betrayed too if I were Iron Man. The man you called a friend won’t even hear you out, and is actively fight against you, that’s messed up.
QUESTION: In closing, is Captain America: Civil War the greatest superhero movie ever made? And if not, which movies would you rank higher?
Aaron: Top three, for sure, alongside The Avengers and The Dark Knight. But yeah. It was incredible and I definitely want to see it again soon. Cody: I'd say it was the greatest compilation of superheroes in one movie. It was definitely better than Batman v Superman, in my opinion, where they also had multiple superheroes. Movies that have multiple superheroes in the future are going to have a hard time because this is what they'll have to compare to. Overall, I'd say this is easily top three, along with Iron Man and The Dark Knight Rises.
Cole: I’d say the most real. In ties into our lives so much, but I’m not sure that I’m ready to say it was the greatest.
Curtis: Yes.
Amy: Absolutely. I would be willing to see it in theaters some more before it's released on video.
There you have it! Have you seen the movie yet? (We certainly hope so if you've made it this far!) Did you have a favorite moment? Who would you have wanted to be killed off? What did you think about the Winter Soldier assassinations? Join the conversation in the comments section below!
