Virtual Roundtable: "Star Wars - The Rise of Skywalker"

It has been a strange couple of decades for Star Wars fans.

There is no doubt that the original trilogy (A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi) changed Hollywood forever. The first three movies are generally well-liked (Metacritic gave them scores of 90, 82 and 58, respectively - people don't like Ewoks, apparently) and, without question, they stand as benchmarks in the pantheon of pop culture.

It is commonly believed that George Lucas had originally planned out a nine-movie saga, which would be released in three separate trilogies. In the early 2000s, George and Lucasfilm gave us three prequels, which each have some value, despite being widely panned and mocked by audiences (Metacritic didn't care for them, either, scoring them 51, 54 and 68). 

Disney bought Lucasfilm in 2012, gradually and ultimately bumping Lucas out of the picture and taking the reins to the final trilogy of movies. And spin-off movies. And animated series. And Disney+ shows. Heaven knows how many films and series there will be when Disney is said and done? It's a great time to be a fan of the franchise - you can't throw a thermal detonator without hitting something in the Star Wars universe. But it has also been a tumultuous time for the franchise. With so much content being released, Disney's ouster of Lucas has resulted in scattered direction (literally) and uneven production. (In particular, having two different directors direct the final three movies has caused a bit of contention among fans.) Another point of interest is the difference between critical reception of these movies in comparison to fan scores.

Rotten Tomatoes: Scores, Controversy and Confusing Comparisons

Rotten Tomatoes is not my favorite website because of allegations of score censoring to protect movies like Captain Marvel and accusations of intentional review bombing by critics to hurt movies like Joker. With that in mind, let's take a look at how critics ranked Star Wars' nine "trilogy" movies:

The chart above, provided by the Rotten Tomatoes Facebook page, shows the nine movies in order of theatrical release. We see general praise for the original trilogy (including an 82% score for Return of the Jedi - quite a bit higher than the score given by Metacritic), a major dip for Episodes I and II, then brilliant scores for Episode VII and Episode VIII before an enormous drop for the recently released Episode IX.

The odd thing, though, is to compare the critic scores to audience scores for the same movies. I had to make the chart because an official one doesn't exist, as far as I know. Behold:

Disclaimer: I am well aware of online trolls who go out of their way to, for instance, trash DC movies on sites like Rotten Tomatoes to make them look bad next to Marvel, or sexist men who give fake reviews to movies like the aforementioned Captain Marvel. However, I believe Rotten Tomatoes has made changes to their site that results in a generally accurate audience score.

What on earth is causing the discrepancy between critics' scores and fans' scores for the three sequel movies? It's the conundrum of our time. Why are critics and fans so divided by these movies?

The Survey: Taking Matters Into My Own Hands

I decided to get to the bottom of this by asking my friends, co-workers and online associates to take a survey to tell me their thoughts after seeing Episode IX: Rise of Skywalker. Nineteen people, including myself, responded. The remainder of this blog will consist of our answers, although, for the sake of what brevity I have left, I will not be including everyone's responses for every single question. I'll just go through and pick out a few of the best and most interesting answers.

In the name of full disclosure, I believe that at least two people were not totally honest in their responses and/or just wanted to give me a hard time. I have completely disqualified one of the responses because they didn't give me a legitimate name and could thereby disregard any sense of accountability for their answers. The other suspicious respondent only gave me a first name, and I think that some of their answers were good, but they started talking a lot about "Reylo" and Finn and Poe toward the end of their survey, and I just couldn't take those responses seriously. With that in mind, I'm going to allow their multiple-choice answers but won't mention any of their survey responses.

Below are the identities of the fine ladies and gentlemen who were kind enough to take time out of their day to fill out my questionnaire. They will be referred to henceforth by the initials following their names.

• Aaron Christensen (SotT)
• Abbie Sugihara (AS)
• Andrea Chapman (AC)
• Braden Pirami (BP)
• Chris Martellaro (CM)
• DJ Mein (DM)
• Estevan Ramirez (ER)
• Jena Allison (JA)
• Kenan Bushati (KB)
• Kyle Eversole (KE)
• Miranda Christensen (MC)
• Nate Haines (NH)
• Rob Larsen (RL)
• Sarah Randall (SR)
• Scott Aylett (SA)
• Suzzanne Bailey (SB)
• Tyler Johnson (TJ)

Finally, before we get into this sucker, keep in mind that nothing is off limits past this point. Full spoilers are ahead of us, and if you haven't seen Episode IX yet, I strongly encourage you to stop reading now. If you choose to continue, that's on you, man, and I can't be held responsible for you ruining the movie for yourself.

Are we ready??

Question 1: Before seeing "Rise of Skywalker," how excited were you for the movie?

• 56% More Excited than a Typical Star Wars movie
• 22% Less Excited than a Typical Star Wars movie
• 17% Just as Excited as for a Typical Star Wars movie
• 5% Not Excited

Question 2: Explain your response to the previous question.

• ER: "It's the end of a nine-film saga. I was really excited to see how it ended."
• SB: "I love Star Wars and am always excited to see what's happening in a galaxy far, far away."
• NH: "I've become disenchanted with the Star Wars saga since the Disney sequels. It's been a slow descent into indifference."
• JA: "It's the end of an incredible story. I was excited and sad."
• SotT: "The Last Jedi SUCKED. SO. BAD."

Fun fact: Seven respondents specifically mentioned that negative experiences with recent Star Wars movies lowered their expectations for the final movie. Here are a couple of the more positive results:

Question 3:  What were your expectations for "Rise of Skywalker"?

• 67% Cautiously Optimistic
• 22% Bad
• 11% Good

Question 4: Did the negative Rotten Tomatoes score scare you at all?

• 33% No
• 33% Unaware of Rotten Tomatoes Score Prior to Seeing the Movie
• 17% Yes
• 17% Indifferent

For the record: Reports released several days before the global release of Rise of Skywalker, including this one from Forbes.com, indicated that Rotten Tomatoes critics were ranking Episode IX lower than the nearly universally disliked Attack of the Clones.

Question 5: Now that you've seen "Rise of Skywalker," how would you rate it?

• 38.9% 8 out of 10
• 33.3% 9 out of 10
• 16.7% 7 out of 10
• 11.1% 6 out of 10

Question 6: Explain your answer to the previous question.

• RL: "I thought it was fun and exciting. I felt there were some pacing issues and plot devices that weren't perfect."
• TJ: "It had some fun moments. However, the plot came out of nowhere. Lots of elements were not explained well or established, such as Rey's abilities and how the Emperor came [back] to life. I did enjoy the movie, overall - just a lot of poor planning was showing through this movie."
• SA: "I like how the 'mistakes' of TLJ were addressed, but wouldn't consider the film to be as good as other films in the saga."
• AS: "For me, I felt like it was a good closure to the series. I was super bummed about Ben's final outcome, but I did enjoy all of the plot reveals. My only complaint is that I felt like it move[d] slowly, then dump[ed] a lot on you all at once, then slow[ed] down again."
• AC: "I think there were a couple of small things lacking, but overall, it was pretty great."
• JA: "It ended the saga nicely. But perhaps a little too nicely? During the final Rey/Ben scene, I was having an internal debate about a woman needing a man to save her, versus a woman sacrificing herself for everyone else. Not sure [what] I'm left feeling, [to be honest]."
• NH: "It was slightly better than bad for me. There were a few scenes that worked, but for the most part it was a jumbled mess that made it clear there was never a plan from the beginning. Disappointing, but not unexpected, considering the trajectory of TFA and TLJ."

Question 7: Who were your favorite main characters? (Select two)

• 38% Kylo Ren
• 27% Poe
• 19% Rey
• 11% Finn
• 3% None
• 2% Palpatine

Characters not receiving any votes: Princess Leia, Chewbacca

Fun fact: "None" wasn't even an option, but a couple people put it anyway.

Question 8: Who were your favorite minor characters? (Select two)

• 25% Babu Frik
• 25% C-3PO
• 19% BB-8
• 13% Lando Calrissian
• 9% Zorii Bliss
• 6% Jannah
• 3% None

Characters not receiving any votes: Rose, General Hux

Fun fact: "None" wasn't even an option, but a couple people put it anyway.

Question 9: Other than Kylo Ren, which characters most redeemed himself/herself after "The Last Jedi"?

• 61% Luke Skywalker
• 17% General Hux
• 11% Poe
• 5% Finn
• 6% None

Characters not receiving any votes: Rose

Fun fact: "Poe" and "None" were not options, but a couple people put them anyway.

Question 10: Did you cry at all during the movie?

• 39% No, but it was close
• 33% No
• 28% Yes

Question 11: What, if any, was your favorite part of the movie?

• BP: "The callback at the end with the twin suns."
• KE: "The lightsaber duel between Rey and Kylo Ren."
• DM: "Rey's flip over Kylo."
• NH: "Rey vs. Ben on Endor, followed up [immediately] with Han Solo. Hands down."
• SotT: "When Kylo Ren called Han 'Dad.' Also really liked finding out that Rey was a Palpatine, not a Skywalker."
• ER: "Han telling Ben, 'I know.'"
• MC: "Babu Frik."
• SR: "When Rey used the Force and told the stormtroopers [to feel] relieved they were there, and Poe's comment ('Does she do that to us?') It's fun, yet a valid concern."
• CM: "When Rey looks to the sky and all the Jedis acknowledge her."

Question 12: What, if any, was the worst part of the movie?

• TJ: "Kylo dying was terrible. He was the best part."
• SR: "Kylo Ren's wet hair. Ew. He's not attractive to begin with, but wet hair made it worse."
• SB: "Finding out Rey was a Palpatine. Why can't powerful Force users come from a family that isn't a Skywalker, Kenobi or Palpatine?"
• SA: "'I'm the spy!' The delivery was awful."
• SotT: "The part where Poe and Rey are arguing about damage done to the Millennium Falcon and BB-8 was pretty annoying."
• MC: "Bird-nose lady."
• AS: "Trying to force a relationship on Poe and Zorii. Also, I had a hard time with Finn always trying to step in and interfere with whatever Rey was doing."
• AC: "Toss-up: Almost-dead Chewie / Zombie Palpatine (ew)."
• JA: "Maybe the dagger being too convenient."

Question 13: Were you satisfied to find out the truth about Rey's family?

• 67% Yes
• 22% No
• 11% Indifferent

Question 14: How did you feel about Kylo Ren's story arc in "Rise of Skywalker"?

• SotT: "I wanted him to die as a villain so badly, but when he called Han 'Dad,' I almost lost it. I thought his story arc was perfect and loved what they did with him."
• CM: "Kylo still killed his father out of hate or confusion, however, if it weren't for him, maybe everyone would have died."
• SR: "He is very complicated. He's bad but he didn't want to kill Rey and ended up saving her. I just don't get him."
• SA: "It was a quick 180. I think this comes back to poor character development."
• AS: "LOVE."
• KE: "I like it. I feel like he's very much exemplary of a Sith, along with Anakin - struggling internally and pushing himself constantly."
• MC: "Loved it."
• NH: "It's the only believable arc with emotional resonance for me. They got sooooo close with Rey, but in the end it fell short for me."
• AC: "I loved it. I wish he would have appeared at the end, though... with Luke and Leia."

Question 15: How did you feel about the way Princess Leia was handled after the untimely passing of actress Carrie Fisher?

• RL: "As good as it could have been. Her dialogue seemed forced, but I was forgiving due to the circumstances."
• TJ: "They did a great job for what they had to do!"
• AS: "I felt like it was handled tastefully, and it was handled well, given the circumstances."
• DM: "Best they could do with what they had."
• AC: "I thought it was done tastefully. It looked pretty real. I loved being able to ourn her character with her screen family."
• NH: "They did the best with what they had. It was a little 'uncanny valley' for me, but mainly because I already knew Carrie Fisher passed. I wonder if the younger generation would even notice if no one told them."

Question 16: How do you feel about the way Emperor Palpatine was utilized in the movie?

• SR: "I thought he was dead, so to see him back was confusing."
• KE: "Awesome, but I really want to know how he survived the fall in the second Death Star. Sith resurrection? Cloning? Or just a macguffin?"
• AC: "Let me eloquently answer this for you: Radsauce. Seriously, it was nasty but so cool."
• ER: "I thought he was great. He was sinister and had a master plan. I want more of him. It felt too rushed."
• RL: "I like how this explains why there are only ever two Sith at a time - the master, who is the sum of all past Sith, and the apprentice who will one day take his place."
• SotT: "Really didn't want to see him come back to life, but realizing the stakes of Rey's decision about whether to kill him was pretty great. I didn't mind his role in this movie at all."
• SA: "It was good, but not as good as RotJ. Honestly, it seemed like a quick way to right the ship."
• BP: "Was OP (overpowered)."
• DM: I mean, given Snoke was wasted, it was ok. Seems like a weird idea to let everyone know you're back and not surprise them. You would think he'd have learned what happens when his lightning hits a lightsaber near his face by now."
• NH: "So dumb. Pretty much negates the original trilogy and what Anakin did after six episodes of story arc."

Question 17: What, if any, was your favorite "fan service" moment in the movie?

• Lots of the respondents loved the cameos of returning characters! The most popular "cameo" mentioned as part of an answer was Harrison Ford's reprisal of Han Solo.
• Other cameos mentioned include Lando, Wedge Antilles, Ewoks and the audio cameos by previous Jedi.

• KB: "What does [fan service] even mean?"
• RL: "The shot with all the ships from other shows."
• SR: "Chewie getting a medallion."
• AS: "Rey and Ben finally kissing."
• SotT: "Luke catching the lightsaber and saying, 'A Jedi's weapon deserves to be treated with more respect.' Take THAT, Rian Johnson!!"

Question 18: Overall, the amount of "fan service" and "retconning" used in "Rise of Skywalker" to make up for controversial aspects of "The Last Jedi" was...

• 50% Acceptable
• 22% Awesome
• 17% No opinion / Indifferent
• 11% Annoying

Question 19: Was "Rise of Skywalker" a satisfactory end to the Skywalker Saga?

• 83% Yes
• 17% No

Question 20: Where does "Rise of Skywalker" rank among the nine "trilogy" movies?

• 61% Middle 3
• 17% Best
• 17% Top 3
• 5% Bottom 3

Fun fact: If you want to chat with some people who thought this was the worst movie of the franchise, just hop on Facebook and head straight to the Comments section of any Star Wars-related post. You'll find 'em.

Question 21: How do you feel about the future of Star Wars?

• 44% Keep it going, but decrease the frequency of movies and TV shows.
• 39% Still going strong! I want more movies and more TV shows.
• 17% I only want more TV shows.

Fun fact: Signs of the Times: Underground wrote a blog about every single episode of "The Mandalorian," which everybody in the whole world loves! Check those out by clicking here.

Question 22: Want to discuss anything else?

• SR: "I also liked the fight scenes with Rey and Kylo Ren in two different places at once. That was pretty cool."
• AC: "I really loved how the movie felt like a love letter to the fans. The idea of redemption and change was displayed so well. Han saying, 'I know,' got me all teary-eyed. I loved the battle scene and seeing everyone show up to fight. Heck yeah! I felt like the kiss between Rey and Ben was unnecessary but I didn't mind it. It seemed more like it should have been a thank-you kiss instead of passion. Also, Kylo looked less like moody, teenage Snape at the end, and that was nice!"
• JA: "I'm now watching Episode VII because I need more Star Wars!"
• KE: "So so so so many loose ends. Especially Jannah and Lando. WHAT."
• SA: "The lesbians!"
• RL: "I need to see it again!"
• ER: "Chewie didn't need to get a medal. If I had a 'groan' moment, that was it."
• SB: "[Aaron's] inability to like The Last Jedi."
• DM: "Dominic Monaghan looked like he just left the set of 'LOST' with his Dharma jumpsuit still on."
• NH: "Way random but it bugs me: the fight with Ben vs. the Knights of Ren would have been more thrilling if the K-of-R actually did something during the movie besides walk around trying to look scary.
  
  Also, I can't stress enough that this movie makes it so obvious there never was a PLAN for the whole trilogy to work -- which just boggles my mind the more I think about it. I mean... Wouldn't you think the FIRST thing to do would be to get everyone in a room and say, 'Ok, guys, THIS is what we're going for from beginning to end. It's got to tie together and make sense.'
  
  Honestly, as controversial as TLJ was, this movie made me wish Rian Johnson would have been the sole director/writer for all three and had a REALLY good editor to stop him from doing stupid casino side quests. [Editors note: I cannot believe I just typed some of those words in that particular sequence. **squirts hand sanitizer**] Out of all the new movies, at least TLJ took risks and built character development. I know RJ is on the naughty list for most fans, but I do think he's a talented filmmaker and writer from his other movies. (Go see Knives Out.) [Editor's note: Knives Out was really good.]
  
  I feel like TFA doomed the trilogy from the get-go, then passed the buck back and forth between writers, and directors screwed it up beyond recovery."
• SotT: "I thought it was really cool to find out that Luke trained Leia after Return of the Jedi. Believe it or not, that actually makes the 'Mary Poppins' scene from The Last Jedi a little bit better. It's not like she magically just used the Force for the first time - she was a full-fledged Jedi. It was also pretty awesome to realize that Rey and Ben were using Luke and Leia's lightsabers for the final fight against Palpatine. Also, The Last Jedi still sucks.

***

Well, there you have it! If you made it this far through the blog, ask Maz Kanata for a medal because your eyeballs just went to war! You deserve it just as much as Chewie did, which, depending on who you ask, might be a whole lot or not at all. I'm not quite sure.

As you can probably tell at this point, Rise of Skywalker was either the greatest movie of the franchise, the worst film of all time, or somewhere in between. It's all very confusing, and I'm not sure we really came to a consensus about anything whatsoever.

If you were not one of the lucky ones who got to contribute to my survey, feel free to let us know how much you loved or hated the movie, or how bland and inconsequential it was for you. I'd love to read your opinions and either chat you up about how great the movie was or formulate a five-step rebuttal about why you're wrong. Leave a comment down below, follow me on Twitter (@atownmania and @sottunderground) or find me on Facebook.

Regardless of what any of us thought, Disney knows that Star Wars is the intergalactic cash cow that just keeps on giving, and they'll milk this baby until the end of time. Whether that's a good thing is... well, I guess that's up to you to decide.

Until next time,

May the Force be with you.